If there were no God, the topic would never come up :-)

Sometimes I have opined on Facebook and elsewhere, if there were no God, then that topic would never come up.😆

The Order of Pen

Drachen 

(...where does that leave us?) "On our own."

Sandy Kaper

Then you lack faith. For it is by faith that you believe and with belief you know in your heart.

Sloan Bashinsky

Sandy Until I was in my 45th year, I believed God (by whatever name), angels, demons, ETs and other sentient beings than Earthlings existed. Then, things started happening, which increased in frequency, and then became ongoing, and I knew for a fact all of that existed. Yet there was no way I could prove it, and I would have been nuts to believe I could prove it. However, I met quite a few people who were having their own experiences, which caused them to move past belief to knowing. They also knew there was no way to prove it, but when we talked about such matters, it was like we were old friends. We felt like we were from somewhere else, living on Earth until it was time for us to leave. I still know two of them. We learned that Christians thought we were nuts or worked for the Devil. And other people just trought we were nuts 

Andrew

Sandy faith is the essence of belivening

Drachen

Andrew  That doesn't make it a good thing.

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen

"I am not an atheist. An atheist is someone who has compelling evidence that there is no Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. I am not that wise, but neither do I consider there to be anything approaching adequate evidence for such a god. Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?"

CARL SAGAN TO ROBERT POPE, OF WINDSOR, ONTARIO, OCT. 2, 1996 

 

Sloan Bashinsky

I recall what looked to me like Sagan struggles to view the creation larger than human science thinking, and I recall thinking, if he lived in my skin a little while, he would know for a fact there is far more than human science can imagine, and would he be able to accept it and write about it?

Drachen

Sloan Bashinsky. Sober up and retype that. It's illegible.

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen I don't drink booze or use any drugs, legal or illegal. Perhaps add 's to make it "Sagan's struggles". If you want me to expand on what I meant by "if he had lived in my skin", let me know. Thanks.

Drachen

Sloan Bashinsky. I don't want you to expand on what you said. I want you to say it in such a way as to be understood.

If you were sober when you wrote that, then maybe you should repeat the 5th grade.

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen Well how about I say it this way. I recall Sagan wrote a sci-fi book, CONTACT, which I read and liked, because it showed he didn't think human science had everything all figured out. Yet, I felt sorry for him, such a great mind, that he was stuck in trying to put everything in the cosmos into a scientific box. For some years back then, I was having ongoing experience with beings science had declined to recognize could exist, because they could not be proven scientifically or in a court of law to exist. Yet, they could not be proven to not exist, either. I saw those beings interact in my and other people's affairs, and other people also witnessed it. The skeptics, ironically, were people who believed in science and Bible people.😆 I've had the same experience ever since, and the same skeptics.😆

David

Sloan Bashinsky “Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.” - Carl Sagan

Sloan Bashinsky

David I agree completely with that quote, and when Sagan crossed over into the afterlife, he saw some of that incredible and I imagine, because he was so sincere in his life on Earth, he saw a lot more incredible.

David

Sloan Bashinsky Random delusional speculation.

'crossed over into the afterlife' is a long way of saying 'he died'

The quote shows that Sagan, as with any scientist worthy of the title, was well aware there is much more to be known than will ever be known or is even knowable.

No scientist thinks they know everything, that is the exclusive unrealistic realm of the religious and the other delusional know-nothing (anti-fact-based evidence) believers.

Drachen

Sloan Bashinsky. Really? How many of his books were written after he crossed into the afterlife?

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen I've talked with scientists, and lots of other people, who deny, or even ridicule, people who believe God exists, even though the doubters have no clue whether or not God exists, nor can they prove God does not exist. But as I wrote to begin with, if they lived in my skin a little while, they would know God and a lot of other things exist, of which they had been unaware.

I imagine Contact and some of Sagan's other writings and spoken comments went straight into the Akashic Record, which is a sort of universal library. After Sagan crossed over, he (his soul) perhaps was assigned to help scientists still on Earth evolve in their thinking. If he comes back in another life on Earth, perhaps he will be a scientist again, and he goes that time even where angels had feared to tread.😆

 

Drachen

Sloan Bashinsky Perhaps I should clarify. How do you know he saw anything after he died?

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen Fair question, which I could defer to what many people reported happened after they medically died and had experiences somewhere else, and then they woke from the dead and lived on Earth a while longer. They were not able to prove they had those experiences after they medically died, but no one could prove they didn't have those experiences.

I have not had a NDE, but I have had ongoing experiences since early 1987 with beings clearly not of Earth origin. Perhaps half a dozen of those experiences were clearly with ETs. Tens of thousands were with angels known in the Bible, who sometimes identified themselves to me, but mostly they just did what they do and I experienced it in my life and in what I saw happening in other people's lives. So convinced angels, or whatever they were, existed, I extrapolated there is something very definitely out. there that has nothing to do with Earth science perspective today. Furthermore, I was told there is far more than just living on this world, and in that sense religions are more tuned in that science. I also was told religions mostly got it all messed up and tried to own it and knowledge of it. Many times, Christians have not believed anything I told them about what I was experiencing and being told.

David

Sloan Bashinsky "Near Death Experience' is a misnomer coined by wishful thinkers, not the experience of death.

NDEs are a common pattern of many people when they are experiencing intense threat, are seriously ill, or come close to death.

Sloan Bashinsky

David Yes, in many of those cases, and I have read of people being pronounced medically dead, but they came back and reported what happened when they were claimed to be dead. I don't see how you can be sure they were wishful thinkers, unless you were in their skin when it happened.

 

David

Sloan Bashinsky Those things happen in your mind, exactly like when you dream.

Sloan Bashinsky

David you been there, done that?

Drachen

Sloan Bashinsky. Actually my mother was pronounced dead after a car accident, and was revived. But she didn't attain any kind of enlightenment.

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen glad she came back, my question was regarding people who came back reporting NDE

And, if your mother was declared medically dead, might her coming back to life defy science, be called a miracle by Christians?

Drachen

You don't know anything after you die.

Hathor

Man doesn't "know" at all the speculatation or inference. They assume and presume but it's all just scripts, roles and bunch of extras. The only requirement after birthing into Death's Valley is to die. The search for knowledge wisdom, ascension...meaning wss folly. The build was a construct, space was filmed right on the platform set.

Sloan Bashinsky

Drachen You know that, how?

Drachen

Sloan Bashinsky. Ask any dead person. They won't be able to answer you.

Sloan Bashinsky

 Drachen People who died came to me and people I know in dreams and said stuff, but I personally never had the corpse of someone who died speak to me, nor did I hear of that happening to anyone, other than Lazarus and Jesus in the Gospels.

sloanbashinsky@yahoo.com